des femmes

des femmes, defamed...

Oops, missed some

I missed a few putdowns in my earlier post about some comments at Body and Soul.

We have far more important things to worry about.

"Oh, yes, let's beat up on Atrios. Good idea. Just the thing to be doing right now." (Patrick Neilsen Hayden)

a. You're just jealous.
b. Be quiet! We have to stick together for the good of [whatever].

"I should have been a lot clearer--I was referring to the way a lot of subsequent commentors seemed to be singling out Atrios, as if he epitomized the worst of this stuff. [...] I do think that [other posters were] right to observe that the logic of 'don't object right now, there are more important things to worry about', which was implicit in my post, is wrongheaded. And I certainly think you're entitled to say 'Hey, that bugs me, knock it off' and expect to be at least respected. I just wish I could come to this conversation without quite such a long personal history of having seen [a] these kinds of reproofs being used as a way to cut down the tall poppies, [b] as a means of undercutting the liberals and leftists who speak most forcefully." (Patrick Neilsen Hayden)

Can someone who deliberately insults women be truly called a liberal? Not by my definition: respecting the rights of others regardless of sex, age, color, religion, sexual preference, physical condition, or income level; working toward a common good; treating each other with the respect due every human being.

Yes, I know who Patrick Neilsen Hayden is. Makes it worse, doesn't it? Even the guy who had enough guts to change his name when he got married, an extremely pro-feminist action, will jump automatically to defend another guy's insulting language.

As for singling out Atrios, I found the insults as a reader of his blog. Should I mention the other blogs--Daily Kos, for one--in which I didn't find insults? (Okay, I really hate "whore," but I can hold my nose sometimes.)

By the way, it does seem that Atrios may have listened and cut out the "pussy" usage, at least.

a. Your complaints are just some more of that PC stuff.
b. We'll keep it clean when you ladies are around.
c. You're overly sensitive; no one but you is offended.

Kevin Hayden said:

"Wait, this was a discussion of bloggers offending women with poorly chosen words, right? Then the ultimate bottom line oughta be this: [a] there's no static level of PC that is permanently achievable. The definition has to remain: what's considered [b] polite in mixed company. If a few people in the readership are saying certain words are offensive, a writer simply should demonstrate consideration for their concern. [c] It thereby remains the judgment of the author to define for herself or himself how many persons constitute a 'few' worth keeping as readers, or how sensible just one objector is in critiquing a usage they were offended by."

What's this "mixed company" crap? Does that mean it's okay to use words like "raghead" or "nigger" as long as there are no ragheads or niggers around?

Just ask them nicely to stop.

"Racism, sexism, class prejudice, and other forms of prejudice need to have light thrown in their direction, but I become concerned when examining prejudice becomes less a matter of understanding and amelioration and more a game of gotcha." (Jeanne)

Gilliard responded by repeating the insult. Who's playing gotcha there? Other men have refused to admit they're insulting women, instead throwing out the same old moth-eaten arguments. Is it playing gotcha to keep highlighting insults until they stop?

I've read posts by women who object to this language on at least three other blogs besides Body and Soul. Very likely there are others that I haven't seen. How long have women been objecting, and how long will we have to keep objecting before the men stop insulting us?

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